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 Post subject: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 9:40 am 
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I'm starting this new thread because I didn't want to hijack Jim Avelis' thread about his surgery, but I'd like to ask some of you about this issue. There's obviously quite a bit of knowledge on this subject here.

I've been having some shoulder pain in the right shoulder for about 3 months. I can't lay on my right side at night. The pain restricts certain movements, and can range anywhere from dull at times to sharp pain when I make those certain movements. BUT IT DOESN NOT HURT TO DRAW AND SHOOT! Not at all.

My first thoughts were that this pain was arthritis or maybe bone spurs because of my age. The thought of it being related to some sort of rotator cuff issue never occurred to me... until last night. I was reading an article about shoulder pain and the symptoms they were describing seemed quite similar to what I'm dealing with.

Anyway... a couple of questions: How did you guys know you were dealing with rotator cuff tears?
Did it hurt to draw and shoot?

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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 10:17 am 
Russell,
Even with my damage I did to my shoulder in falling in UT I could draw the bow (with the bad shoulder) and never felt any pain. The only way to know for sure if it's a rotator cuff problem is for an MRI. Go to a Orthopedic Dr. and he can do some quick tests that will tell if something's wrong but the amount of damage can only be seen through an MRI. Google for "How to test for a rotator cuff tear" - you can do these tests at home - just ask your wife to help. They will give you a good indication.
Doug


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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 10:34 am 
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Russell, definitely go see an orthopedic dr. One that specializes in sports medicine would be best. They may be able to diagnose your shoulder without an MRI. I thought I had a rotor cuff tear last year. Turned out to be an impingement. Three months of PT and I was pain free. No MRI or surgery. Good Luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 1:38 pm 
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Suck it up Martha!!! :D Just kidding.

About a year ago I heard a loud "pop" in my shoulder when drawing my bow. I couldn't rotate my shoulder enough to raise my arm parallel with the ground for a couple of weeks. It really sucked and scared the crap out of me, I was worried about being able to shoot again. But the doc diagnosed it as a tendon popping out of my rotator cuff, and not the actual rotator cuff. I was able to get good again with just some physical therapy. But it has really made me think about draw weight as I'm not getting any younger!

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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 2:09 pm 
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Russell,

Like others have said, go to the doc see what they say the problem is.


It can be all sorts of things and the pain you describe could be caused by carpal tunnel issues too.

I have had surgery on my right shoulder and it wasnt pleasant but it was necessary. I had tendon damage from an old injury and bone spurs eating away at my rotator cuff from the inside and the rotator cuff was almost cut through.

It could be nothing of something. Talk to the docs and then come back and tell us what they say. With all of our non degrees in non medical shoulder diagnosis we can misinform you with the best of them ;)


Dont let it go without being looked at.


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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 3:25 pm 
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Been there and done that. Fell several years ago, going on a fire call. Hurt like heck for a couple days then seemed to go away. But then it started creeping back. Just a little at first, then where I could not sleep on my right shoulder. Had an MRI and had torn rotator. Got an injection, and a lot of PT. Only bothers me once in a great while. Don't let them tell you the injection will only sting. They lied to me. Hurt worse than the original injury. But in a couple hours it felt so much better it was definitely worth it.
Just do what the Dr. says. And stick with it as long as he says. I didn't and had a set back, but the next time I followed it to the letter.
Good luck.
Johnny and Kuri

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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 4:03 pm 
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I have problems with both shoulders. I had an MRI on the right one and the doc found a rotator cuff tear. He said he could do surgery if the pain kept me from sleeping or being able to do the things I want to do. I had started doing some stretching and light exercises isolating those shoulder areas. The doc said to keep doing them and see how it went. Fortunately, it helped a lot. They don't really bother me as long as I don't overdo it and stay below 55# at my draw. See the link below. I used really light, 2# weights for the exercises. With that being said, see a good orthopedic surgeon as others have recommended to be sure.

http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/bow ... /index.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 4:49 pm 
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I had every intention of having it looked at Peej... It's just that the realization of what it could be came on me so fast, and I hadn't ever given it any thought before, that I just wanted some thoughts from you guys. As I said, I know this board is full of folks who have worked through shoulder pain before.

I'm lucky in that my Doc is a sports medicine doc, and just happens to be one of the doctors for the LSU football team. He'll be able to give me a good idea of which direction to head. (I suspect he's more proficient than a Notre Dame football team Dr., don't you think?)

I've already got an appointment for the Tuesday after returning from the Pig Gig. Hey... and trust me, I'm gonna milk this to the max. I'm already thinking that should one of those big TX pigs fall to one of my arrows, that my shoulder is gonna be hurting too much to drag. I'll be looking for some of those younger guys to help... hehehehe

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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 5:22 pm 
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Russell Lantier wrote:

I've already got an appointment for the Tuesday after returning from the Pig Gig. Hey... and trust me, I'm gonna milk this to the max. I'm already thinking that should one of those big TX pigs fall to one of my arrows, that my shoulder is gonna be hurting too much to drag. I'll be looking for some of those younger guys to help... hehehehe


Be glad to drag! Better yet, shot one close the the road. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 5:24 pm 
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Laughing....

Thanks Bryan. Looking forward to meeting you.

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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 6:39 pm 
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hey russ. seems like most of the angles have been covered. one of the really bad scenarios is a bicep tendon separation. (forgive me if i repeat myself, i'm under the influence)Image. if the tendon completely goes, it can retract to the point it cannot be reattached, at takes about 48 hours for it to happen. good luck in whatever course you choose

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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 10th, 2015, 10:37 pm 
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I assumed I had rotator cuff issues but doc said they were fine. I did learn about this little thing called a labrum however and that they can tear.


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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 11th, 2015, 11:48 am 
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Roger that Steve! And they tear in various ways. I'm in my 6th week of physical therapy -- still not bow drawing but getting closer. If this doesn't "get me there" I will have arthroscopic surgery to fix the labrum -- (or cut out the irritating tear-flap).

Shoulders are complex. I've had two shoulder surgeries and when my bones get dug up by an Archeologist graduate student in 2415, they'll say, "He tried to shoot a bow way too heavy for his joint strength...must have been some kind of a middle ages throw back - his genetics show from Old England -- poor bugger!"


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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 11th, 2015, 2:06 pm 
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"I'm already thinking that should one of those big TX pigs fall to one of my arrows, that my shoulder is gonna be hurting too much to drag. I'll be looking for some of those younger guys to help... hehehehe"

Russell, you can probably count Barry out on the drag. Gene complains all the time that he is useless helping put up stands, walking around doing his hurt arm routine!


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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 11th, 2015, 7:08 pm 
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Best of luck Russ,

I hope you find a solution that does not involve surgery. Keep us posted on your progress.

I have wondered about my own shoulder as well. An old dislocation injury. 1992. These days I have no issues shooting but if I extend my arm and rotate my arm as if to empty a glass, I get pain some days.

Doc says that this is what they call the "empty can" test. He says the old dislocation injury is finally reminding me. He says that strong muscles hold the shoulder in place and the effects of a traumatic shoulder injury are not as noticeable in a young person.

As we get older the muscles don't do as good a job holding things together. He said that surgery is a long way off for me and recommended certain exercises for shoulder strength. I started a routine and have notice improvement. I have to avoid rotation motions above my head and excessive strain above the head at arms reach.

All the work I've done by myself on my house in the last four years have been a real contributor. I blame drywall work as being the worst thing for my shoulder.

Again best of luck Russ.


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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 13th, 2015, 10:11 am 
Russell Lantier wrote:
I'm lucky in that my Doc is a sports medicine doc, and just happens to be one of the doctors for the LSU football team. He'll be able to give me a good idea of which direction to head. (I suspect he's more proficient than a Notre Dame football team Dr., don't you think?)



I believe that would cover any team Dr.! Not that I carry any grudge against ND (that would go back to 1966 when they went for a tie vs. a win against Michigan State). Weiners!!


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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: February 13th, 2015, 10:29 am 
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Russ, I happen to know that there will be plenty of "liquid pain killer" in camp.
You know, for medicinal purposes and such...


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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: April 1st, 2015, 8:21 pm 
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Russell, How did the appointment go? I had rotator cuff surgery last year for a complete tear, 2 partial tears and bicep put back in place. It was a 10 month ordeal till the surgery. For 5 Months the Drs didn't think it was torn till I had an MRI. I had 2 months physical therapy before surgery and it didn't come around. Then 7 months of physical therapy after surgery. I am still fighting my way back up in bow weight. I heard my shoulder pop when the injury happened. Not good! Insist on an MRI.


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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2015, 8:13 am 
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Thanks for asking Gene. Had the appointment with my family Doc about a month ago. He's also a sports medicine guru and agrees I need the MRI to see what's going on. But since I already had a laser prostate surgery scheduled (had that just yesterday, by the way), he suggested I sorta take on one issues at a time. I agreed. Once this prostate mess clears up, I'll proceed with the shoulder.

I just did the bowfishing trip and still don't have any problems shooting, so the shoulder is not impacting the most important issue... shooting a bow.

The long recoveries you mention sure give me pause.

I will follow up here... even if its a couple months down the line. Thanks again for asking.

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 Post subject: Re: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2015, 8:18 am 
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My right shoulder used to hurt a lot. In my younger days I was shooting bows every day with draw weights in the mid-60's. Also was playing a lot of competitive softball and doing pushups each day to stay in shape. Got to the point where it felt like someone was sticking a knife into my shoulder socket at times. Laying off all the physical activity helped somewhat. I switched to shooting left hand about 6 years ago and it is like starting over with a new shoulder. No pain, no history of abusing that shoulder. I suggest that anyone who has a lot of shoulder pain and rest and/or surgery is not an option to consider shooting opposite hand.


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