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PostPosted: November 3rd, 2014, 9:22 am 
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I am an associate member of the PBS, with a goal of applying for regular membership once I have taken @ least 8 animals with traditional equipment.

I still do shoot a compound, as well as my trad stuff almost on a daily basis. I am just not comfortable enough accuracy wise to commit fully to my trad bows, but it is a goal.

My reason for starting this thread is to bring up an issue that I think will help PBS. As it stands now, the only compounds that are recognized are of the 65% letoff variety, shot without sights or a release aid. Good luck finding a compound nowadays with less than 75%. (I've worked at a major outdoor retailer as well as a professional bow shop, and ive never seen a 65% letoff bow that was less than 10 years old)

How many registered members does Tradgang have??? What about leatherwall??
WHY ARENT WE REACHING OUT TO THEM AND GETTING THEM TO SIGN UP WITH PBS???

The simple reason is that compounds are allowed. BUT it comes with unreasonable and unattainable restrictions. If PBS moves to strictly trad only, I can just about guarantee that more trad only bowhunters will join.

Problem with that is trad only hunters are limited in number. PBS needs to reach out to a larger piece of the (bowhunting) pie. Im not saying that we need to allow mechanical broadheads, or condone ozone making machines. My point is that we are cutting ourselves off @ the knees.

We miss out on more trad hunters joining because we "allow" compounds.....we miss out on more compound bowhunters even looking at us because of the restrictions put on the bows we recognize.....Lose lose situation.

I am in favor of putting restrictions on regular and life members, such as trad only. Bht regular members arent going to be able to recruit as well as people who might shoot a compound. If youare talking to a hundred or even a thousand trad hunters, we are missing out on the millions of compound guys.

Not all are PBS material and I will be the first to admit that. But even if a paltry 5% of hunters using compounds are PBS material and decide to join-think of how many fresh articles, stories, movies and $ could be brought in!

Check out Donnie Vincent's work, he produces phenomenal hunting documentaries and movies, yet wouldnt be recognized because he has a sight on his bow and uses a release aid. If anybody here could reasonably claim that he isnt an ethical bowhunter and would not contribute positively in getting our message of ethical bowhunting out to more of the mainstream hunters, I would show you a fool.

I dont mean to be harsh, but thats the honest truth as I see it. We cant claim to be accepting of compounds when there are less than 5 manufacturers out there even making bows that would be suitable to shoot with fingers, and even less that meet letoff requirements.

We need to set a line and become trad only (opens up ALL of thd traditional bowhunters that subscribe to TBM, are active on Tradgang, the bowyers that craft our bows etc)

OR we need to revise our decades old policy on compounds and start advertising in moreof the mainstream bowhunting channels. Donnie Vincent is a fantastic model of an ethical hunters using compound equipment, how cool would it be to see a PBS patch on his frame pack, or PBS decal on his truck in the videos he produces which reach a MUCH MUCH broader audience than our website does.

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PostPosted: November 3rd, 2014, 9:39 am 
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Please do yourself a favor and check out some of the fly fhishing videos on youtube. Visit some of the major manufacturers of the equipment (Winston, Sage, Hatch etc)

Pretty awesome and inspiring videos. There is a fly fishing film tour which is a blast. We as ethical bowhunters are missing out on a major opportunity to let our voice be heard. Most of those videos are funded by sponsors which I realize, dont you think Hoyt, Easton and other major bow hunting related companies would love to reach another segment of the people???

We need sponsors and people with the ability to reach a broad audience to be on our side. A traditional or ethical bowhunting film tour would be widely appreciated and would bring some much needed awareness to what we do.

You dont think Sitka, or KUIU would be willing to help out ($) to fund an ethical bowhunting short movie, or commercial?? I can almost guarantee it. They are for profit organizations that want to make money, I truly believe that if we can have a uniform and reasonable mission that more companies would be willing to be sponsors.

How many of us have an Easton arrow laying around, or a VPA broadhead laying on the table in our hunting rooms? Have a First Lite jacket or pair of Sitka pants hanging up in our hunting closet? Use Zeiss or Vortex or whatever other company's optics?

We need to promote ourselves and are not doing a very good job at all far as I can see. Heck even Prois (ladies hunting apparel company) has an add in Eastmans bowhunting journal picturing a gal with a longbow sporting their gear!

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PostPosted: November 3rd, 2014, 10:43 am 
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Jacob,

There are no restrictions regarding use of sight pins and release aids. You are correct that compound bows with 65% let-off are a rare species these days. That is an issue that PBS needs to look at in the future.

PBS has focused a lot of attention on the recruitment of bowhunters that shoot traditional gear. We certainly need to improve our marketing and recruitment of members. To be perfectly blunt, I am not a big fan of recruiting members from the Leatherwall. The postings are full of idiots that try to pass themselves off as experienced, knowledgeable traditional archers/bowhunters when in fact most are neither. For whatever reason, most traditional bowhunters are not joiners...they are loners who prefer to keep to themselves. Compton is trad only and they have a great problem recruiting members. The majority of those that attend the summer Compton shoot in Berrien Springs are not members of Compton. For whatever reason they will not join even though they attend the shoot year after year.

I agree PBS is too small to effectively get our message of ethical bowhunting out to others. I favor using partnerships with other organizations, such as we did with the P&Y Club, when feasible.

You have a lot of good observations/thoughts. We need more members like you that are concerned with our future and how we can better market our brand and message.


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PostPosted: November 3rd, 2014, 11:51 am 
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Personally, I prefer having the PBS "Quality over Quantity". Numbers mean nothing if they are there just to pay dues.

The PBS is full of people who make it happen. I would hate to dilute that just to increase revenue.

Excellent idea on the videos, but I refuse to film anything (including my kids growing up). I want to experience things first hand, not worrying if I got it on film and potentially mis seeing it twice.

There are some guys on here that are very gifted with a video recorder, and some have posted videos here on the site and also on the PBS Facebook page, their websites and even their own production movies, which by the way, ALL are phenomenal videos.

I guess what I'm saying is that I like the PBS the way it is. Sure there are some improvements that could be made, but for what? Just to make more money? I for one, like the Fraternaty that we are.

As for what kind of bow a guy chooses to hunt with (crossbows excluded), I really couldn't care less what they shoot. Its more what they do when nobody is around them. That is where you find the TRUE ethics of a hunter.


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PostPosted: November 3rd, 2014, 12:37 pm 
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I am in agreement with Quality over Quanity - PBS is unique organization which prides itself on high moral and ethical standards. We do in fact have a substantial number of compound shooters within our membership, such as M.R. James and DR Dave.....

Last July we signed up 30 New members at Denton Hill/ETAR And that was not by accident. We are not about how many members we sign up but that the members we do sign are ONES who possess HIGH ETHICAL and MORAL standards per the ethos of this great organization.

I for one appreciate your comments and I am sure Council will address the let-off issue the next time they have a Council get together in person or conference call.

PBS is not only a trad organization but trad shooters more than compound shooters gravitate to PBS for reasons that are difficult to define, and one would have to conduct an in depth membership survey to detrmine actual numbers of each and reasons they joined.

Being a Member, Associate or Regular, means just one thing to me - INVOLVEMENT! Participate in the process and provide intelligent feedback/suggestions to Council and let them determine things that need to be voted upon by the membership. That is what makes us strong.

Dave

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PostPosted: November 3rd, 2014, 12:44 pm 
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Mike I couldn't agree more with your quality over quantity thoughts, the problem is that we don't even have enough fluff to sort through to find the diamonds!

I don't think we need to be or are going to be the go to place for everyone that picks up a bow and calls themselves a bowhunter, thats what archerytalk is for.

We do need to be a place where the upper echelon of bowhunters should strive to be a part of. Regardless of equipment choice. Updating our definition of what is acceptable compound bow wise will go a long ways towards not scaring off potential recruits who might feel as if simply having a compound disqualifies them from being a valued member of the family.

Guys with tv shows that hunt ethically should be the first wall we try and knock down. Jason Matzinger even did something with the JOC for us, looked great to me. Donnie Vincent should definitely be another we pursue imo.

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PostPosted: November 3rd, 2014, 12:58 pm 
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[quote="Jacob Chapman"

Guys with tv shows that hunt ethically should be the first wall we try and knock down. Jason Matzinger even did something with the JOC for us, looked great to me. Donnie Vincent should definitely be another we pursue imo.[/quote]

Contact them and see why they aren't members of the PBS. If you are truly confident they are PBS "Material", gift them a membership and see if they renew.


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PostPosted: November 4th, 2014, 8:29 am 
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I did reach out to a few bowhunters that I thought would bring new voices and opinions to the PBS. I believe they would be great assets so let's see where it goes.

My point of the thread was to start a discussion, get some new ideas and more importantly action.

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PostPosted: November 5th, 2014, 6:45 pm 
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Jacob,

If you are still working at that pro shop why not leave a few brochures laying out and wear some PBS logo gear?


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PostPosted: November 6th, 2014, 7:47 pm 
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Thats a good thought Steve, I however dont work there anymore. Got tired of 6 days a week it really cuts into hunting time!

Have we ever discussed putting an ad into say Eastmans Bowhunting journal? They pride themselves on being a hardcore diy public land only organization. Could definitely reach a whole lot of prospects that way I believe.

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PostPosted: November 9th, 2014, 10:36 am 
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An observation! First take a few minutes and think about what is it that PBS has to offer. In order for people to want to join anything they must see value and know that they are going to get their hard earned dollars worth from their membership. We, PBS, can no longer rely on our Biannual Banquet or our magazine to be that offering. The way I see it we need to do just as you said Jacob and expand out brand by having more to offer. The honest truth is PBS has more to offer than most organizations in that we have the most dedicated, ethical, hard core bowhunters of any other group. We have over 50 years worth of history and the knowledge within the ranks of our Society to back it.

Now how do we market that? How do we take our message main stream and pronounce to the entire bowhunting community the who, what, where and why PBS is the organization to be a part of. You mentioned Donnie Vincent, watched his video's, excellent. He is elite and hard core and certainly PBS worthy as we stand today. If, and this is a big if, we were to change to all traditional he would not be, nor would a bunch of the elite compound group. As it was said above, we should focus on quality over quantity. How do we find the quality bowhunter amidst the masses of instant gratification crowd. I say instant gratification because the ones shooting X-guns are only hunting with that contraption during our hard earned bow seasons and once black powder or firearms season begins the dang thing is stored away until the day before the season opens next year. How do we filter out those folks to recruit the kinds of folks that fit in with our ethics and philosophies?

I propose that we begin by coming to grips with where we are currently as an organization. We can no longer keep hovering in the gray shadowed area with regards to compounds. They are either in or out. We can't impose restrictions on something that honestly like you said does not exist. Finding a 65% let off compound is just not reasonable. Just for curiosity sake, I checked the 4 sporting goods stores to include BassPro the other day and there were no compounds on the shelf with less that 80% let off. So we either say welcome the unrestricted compound and move on or we say no to technology and go traditional only. We can impose restrictions on those that aspire to become Qualified Members which gives the Associate something to strive towards. Once this hurdle has been cleared the door will be open to really move forward and get down to business.

The newly formed Regional Representative Program is one example of progress. New members with forward thinking ideas like yourself is another example. In my opinion PBS is the greatest organization and let me tell you why I feel this way. The members of PBS, although elite, are not snobs. They don't look down their noses because they choose to set self imposed limits on themselves and do things the hard way. Instead just about every member I have ever had the pleasure of meeting have been more giving than any compound bowhunter bar none. Sharing their knowledge and ethics as well as the shirts off their backs. To me PBS is about the adventure, about experiencing nature and all that it has to offer those who take the time to become a part of it. We are about meeting other brothers of the bow and becoming life long friends after spending just one camp together. About all of our trials and tribulations, the things we learn as we grow and sharing those experiences with others. Perfect example the recent hunts shared here on our site. Kevin, Bryan and Monty's Alaska moose hunt. Many of us will probably never have the opportunity to experience a hunt like this, but because of PBS we were able to join in and through their eyes and experiences enjoy such a wonderful aspect of nature. Jeff Holchin's heart pounding elk hunt as he told of the up's and down's as his hunt unfolded and how it culminated with the kill of a true trophy bull and the exhausting work involved in packing out such an animal.

The family of PBS is about the dedication, the sharing, the being apart of something bigger than any one of us. PBS members love everything about bowhunting. It's not about the brand of clothes or the kind of bow, it's about being out there doing what we love doing, bowhunting. PBS does have far more than what most will ever realize to offer it's members. It is our job as members to preach our message, to find those diamonds in the rough and bring them on board to be a part of the best dam bowhunting organization in the world. We do this by showing potential members the true value of being a part of PBS and showing that you can not put a dollar amount on the benefit of being a member. By telling about our biannual banquets, incredible magazine, growing web site for starters, but then expanding on this and getting behind the scenes and inviting them on one of the member hunts. Not everyone is a salesman, in order to encourage good people to join you need to be passionate, show some PBS Pride and instead of saying what they will get, tell them what they are going to be missing by not being a part of the Society. :D

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PostPosted: November 10th, 2014, 10:47 am 
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Some good ideas Jacob. I myself am in the quality versus quantity camp (and know for a fact that some compound shooters meet the quality requirement), but think we should at least let those potential PBS members know that we exist. I believe that there are a lot of PBS-material bowhunters out there, that don't even know that we exist, or if they do, they don't know what we stand for. I am talking serious, quality bowhunters who live to bowhunt - like us. I have contacted Eastmans Bowhunting about running a PBS ad, along with other publications, as cheaply as possible. Specifically, I asked about trading ad space - Eastmans said no trade, they charge full price. However, once we get the regional representation program up and running full speed, one thing we want to do is work out deals with the state bowhunting organizations to trade ad space, or if that won't work, simply pay to have the PBS ad run in their newsletters and magazines.

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PostPosted: November 10th, 2014, 1:22 pm 
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Jeff Holchin wrote:
Some good ideas Jacob. I myself am in the quality versus quantity camp (and know for a fact that some compound shooters meet the quality requirement), but think we should at least let those potential PBS members know that we exist. I believe that there are a lot of PBS-material bowhunters out there, that don't even know that we exist, or if they do, they don't know what we stand for. I am talking serious, quality bowhunters who live to bowhunt - like us. I have contacted Eastmans Bowhunting about running a PBS ad, along with other publications, as cheaply as possible. Specifically, I asked about trading ad space - Eastmans said no trade, they charge full price. However, once we get the regional representation program up and running full speed, one thing we want to do is work out deals with the state bowhunting organizations to trade ad space, or if that won't work, simply pay to have the PBS ad run in their newsletters and magazines.


Jeff, I couldn't agree more with what you said. We definitely need to focus on the quality of the people we reach out to as future Associate members, and that there are many in the compound shooting world who are definitely PBS material. As for trading ad space, we might also consider becoming a sponsor on their websites or trading website sponsor links with them, especially in the states with larger memberships.

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PostPosted: November 10th, 2014, 2:04 pm 
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I will reach out to the Montana Bowhunters Association and see if they are interested in trading ad spaces or partnering with us somehow as well.

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PostPosted: November 10th, 2014, 9:06 pm 
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Jacob
Thanks for volunteering to help out with expanding the brand! I love your energy! You mentioned Montana Bowhunters Assoc. Look up PBSer Mark Baker. Mark is a past president of MBA and is working on making PBS more visible through alternative media outlets such as you tube. Mark is in Livingston and I'm sure he would welcome the help.
Also check out the video he helped produce, it's on here somewhere but my old age won't let me recall the title. PBS is moving forward.
On the compound let off issue, that may be considered as a bylaws change in the future. Personally, I'd be hesitant to expand our bylaws to accept more technology.


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PostPosted: November 10th, 2014, 9:15 pm 
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The name of the video is "Journey of Challenge"


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PostPosted: November 11th, 2014, 6:15 am 
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As I consider how we might expand the brand, I fall into the compromise zone. What I mean by that is that I'm willing to open the doors and invite people into PBS so they can learn who we are and what we have to offer...even if they might do some things differently than I or we do. We can't expand our brand or in any way affect the current culture of hardcore bowhunting if we aren't truly accessible to others. On the other hand, I'm not attracted to the idea of pitching PBS to certain characters or segments of bowhunting in hopes they will bring their followers with them. Neither am I about a wide-open, let-'em-all-in approach. That's never going to happen anyway, as our voters will remain conservative toward regulations and policy.

I think one of our biggest challenges is to overcome the long-held misconceptions of others that we are a conceited group of stickbow-only folks who hate all technology and would appoint ourselves as the high lords of bowhunting. We are not that way (most of us anyway) but it's the perception we're fighting. We can do a better job of fighting it if we work hard to extend a warm and welcoming invitation to all bowhunters, while knowing our membership criteria will screen out the 99.8% who shouldn't join.


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PostPosted: November 11th, 2014, 7:51 am 
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It's not just "others" that have that perception. If you were at the last banquet, you may have wondered if you were in the right hotel when it came time to listen to a guest speaker.

There's probably some folks already in PBS that aren't doing much good for keeping current membership, much less bringing in new members.


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PostPosted: November 24th, 2014, 5:32 pm 
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Hello guys,

As a new member I've spent a little time reading through the information on this site and re-acquainting myself with some of the founding documentation associated with the PBS.

I find myself breathing a sigh of relief upon reading one of the posts on this forum. The statement about traditional archers being for the most part loners and not joiners certainly applies to myself.

I recently joined PBS as part of a requirement to be able to attend a PBS bowhunt in Texas in Feb 2015. My daughter joined as well for the same on paper judge and jury evidence reason.

We really struggled with the idea that it looks like we're only joining to be eligible to participate on a hunt. That statement about loners and not joiners sure helped me through that mindset.

The fact is that there are folks that chose to be a professional bow hunters long before they even knew that there was an organization like the PBS setting forth criteria to establish and recognize a group of like minded hunters.

Personally I find the turn of events guiding my daughter and I to formal PBS membership to be a wonderful twist of fate.

Barry Wensel told me about the upcoming Spikebox Ranch hunt after emailed him about his thoughts on a good location to hunt in Texas.
He said it was a PBS hunt but I could always join if I wasn't a member.

I'd hunted with Barry and Gene prior on a Pig Gig so he may have had a little knowledge of my Traditional bowhunting interests but the point is that he didn't come off with the "members only attitude". He extended the olive branch to a non member.

I have to relate another experience I had with a Traditional archery shooting event held a while back. It was held at a club often used by High tech compound bow shooters.

On the day of the shoot, many times I saw guys showing up with componds getting out of their cars or trucks all happy to be out and about, getting ready to shoot, only to have their day ruined by one of the shoot hosts informing them that it was a traditional shoot only.

Why would we turn away another bowhunter that might have made special plans to attend, maybe drove some distance etc. Why not let them pay and shoot. Just not submit a score. Maybe spark some interest in traditional archery and find out how much fun it is.

Instead I felt like these guys were being singled out and looked down upon. What's the chance that they drove away with a positive attitude about traditional archery? I've never been turned away from a high tech 3-D shoot. I sure hope that what I saw doesn't happen too often.

I felt compelled to mention my concerns to the folks hosting the event.

Thank God we have people that care enough to keep organizations like the PBS going even though some of it's best members may never join.


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PostPosted: November 24th, 2014, 6:08 pm 
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Welcome to the PBS Duane. From the sounds of it, you are going to have a great time at the Spike Box. I was hoping to make it next year, but my vacation time just won't allow it. Looks like John is doing a fine job of organizing it.

As for turning compound guys away from a "Traditional" shoot...I don't agree with turning them away, but instead, the shoot promoters could of had some longbows/recurves on hand to be used as loaners for people who want to try.

To make it better understood, try taking a scoped 30-06 to a blackpowder rifle shoot, or a Mustang to a Corvette show, a .22 to a BB gun shoot, etc...

Personally, I don't care what a guy wants to shoot (to me it's about the person, not their equipment choice), BUT when I go to a "Traditional" shoot, I want to be at a Traditional shoot.


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PostPosted: November 24th, 2014, 6:31 pm 
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Thanks Mike,

Glad to be here.

Good thought on the loner bow idea....

By the way that's a great bear! Bear hunting is on my wish list.


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2014, 10:19 am 
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Jacob,

Before I get into the meat and potatoes of your post, let me first thank you for starting this thread and starting a much needed dialogue on this topic.

I will try to address each question and point line by line.

Stick with me, as this will be a little long. I may break it up into several smaller post in order to keep everybody engaged and not put them to sleep.

First allow me to congratulate you on your PBS/Bowhunting goals. I would like to see all associate members set and accomplish such a goal.

"I still do shoot a compound, as well as my trad stuff almost on a daily basis. I am just not comfortable enough accuracy wise to commit fully to my trad bows, but it is a goal."

^ I just had this conversation with a new bowhunting friend that happens to be a good bit younger than I. Chad has been very successful with a compound and is indeed a fine bowhunter. He owns, shoots recurves very well but when it comes to opening day, he has no confidence in his trad gear and always reaches for his compound. This is a simple fix and I told him so. Sell the compound and you will no longer reach for it. ;) My friend is more than good enough with his trad gear to be successful with it but the urge to grab what he is comfortable will always be there as long as both styles of bows lay side by side in his man cave, if that makes any sense.

"My reason for starting this thread is to bring up an issue that I think will help PBS. As it stands now, the only compounds that are recognized are of the 65% letoff variety, shot without sights or a release aid. Good luck finding a compound nowadays with less than 75%. (I've worked at a major outdoor retailer as well as a professional bow shop, and ive never seen a 65% letoff bow that was less than 10 years old)"

I completely agree with you on this topic and have spoken with some of our council about my views at length. For the PBS to state on one hand that we are accepting of compounds with just a few minor rules, one of which is the 65% letoff rule. This was fine back when the proposal was drafted, it was sort of the PBS' tech line in the sand, trouble was, the industry jumped over that line and never looked back. To the best of my knowledge there are only two manufacturers even offering a bow in 65% letoff and they must be ordered that way, you will never find one off the rack. This rule truly is contrary to what its intended purpose was originally. Originally it was a way to encourage compound shooters to limit themselves and a way to appease traditional members and keep them from pursuing the PBS from going all traditional.

In fact, it did the opposite on both counts. First, our compound members resented having such restrictions put on them, many left, many others just ignored the rule. Eventually, most of our compound shooting members left and many other traditional shooters left as they thought we had sold out. A rule that was intended to be a compromise between two groups actually alienated a large segment of both groups and they all left.

I have told the council that we must either eliminate the 65% letoff stance for associates or just go 100% traditional, because being in a permanent state of limbo isn't working for us.

My personal preference would be to eliminate any reference to letoff for new associates and be done with it. The letoff genie is out of the bottle and there is no amount of pushing that will be able to stuff that genie back in the bottle.

My personal wish would be to allow an associate to shoot any equipment (no crossbows, only vertical bows;) and then require and member seeking Regular status to have killed at least the required amount of animals with trad gear. Being forced to kill a hand full of animals will allow all applicants to be or become in tune with our values.

I personally don't care if a Regular member shoots trad gear all the time, but if he or she is required to hunt with traditional equipment at least long enough to kill 8 animals, they will know where we are coming from, what we are all about without question. If after they have taken the prerequisite number of animals, they decide to go back to modern gear or switch back and forth, it matters not, they will have had that original seed planted and have some reverence regarding our founders IMO.

By us keeping the 65% letoff rule in place, it is just a backhanded way of going traditional only, while stating, with a wink and a grin, we allow members to shoot compounds.

P.J.


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2014, 10:36 am 
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PBS needs to periodically review our policies/procedures/by-laws and make appropriate updates when required or reaffirm the policy is still appropriate and leave it unchanged. Times change. Equipment is not the same it was when the 65% requirement was drafted. As much as we may want to do so, we cannot travel back in time to a date when all this crap was not available for bowhunters to use.


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2014, 11:09 am 
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Jacob,

I will address a few more points below. Thanks for sticking with me :)


"How many registered members does Tradgang have??? What about leatherwall??
WHY ARENT WE REACHING OUT TO THEM AND GETTING THEM TO SIGN UP WITH PBS???"


The simple reason is that compounds are allowed. BUT it comes with unreasonable and unattainable restrictions. If PBS moves to strictly trad only, I can just about guarantee that more trad only bowhunters will join.

Problem with that is trad only hunters are limited in number. PBS needs to reach out to a larger piece of the (bowhunting) pie. Im not saying that we need to allow mechanical broadheads, or condone ozone making machines. My point is that we are cutting ourselves off @ the knees.



We are currently devising ways/methods to reach out to bowhunters across the country/world. Trad Gang, Stick bow, Traditional Archery Society all have many would be members and we need not ignore them any longer.

There are many other sites that have hard core bowhunters on them, they should not be ignored either. Rokslide comes to mind just to name one.

Although I am in agreement that not all bowhunters are a good fit for the PBS and visa versa, we cannot make a blanket statement stating that bowhunter X and Y are not, and bowhunter Z is. The Associate Member class was put in place for the sole reasons of allowing bowhunters to see if the PBS was for them and in turn allowing them a way to grow and mature as a bowhunter while surrounding themselves with dedicated, hard core bowhunters. Regular members are not born, they are created from the dust of many failed stalks, blistered feet, scuffed elbows, broken arrows etc. In other words all Regular members of the PBS were complete and utter failures at various and assorted times in our bowhunting careers and for any of us to shun those that haven't yet attain our personal level of peace, satisfaction and knowledge is pampas and arrogant to say the least.


99.99731% of all new bowhunters only know what they see, hear and read via today's modern hunting media. It's not their fault they chose to hunt with in their minds, is the only equipment and methods available. Most of today's new bowhunters don't even realize you can buy a new recurve or longbow. That's just the way it is. Its our job to teach them our ways, not b&^% and moan that they should already know and practice them.


When we say that PBS isn't for everybody, we don't need quantity, we need quality, well, that is true and yet not so true.

You acquire quality VIA quantity. Through the Associate MEmber program we constantly turn over about 60-80% of new members within 3 years. Thats the nature of all organizations, magazines, clubs etc. People join to see if the product is right for them and most find out within a couple years that it's not. No harm, no foul. A person comes in, gives us their money, we sell them a product and their either like it or not. BUT, make no mistake, we need these members "that are not PBS material" in order to funnel those members that are PBS material towards us.

Prime example of this theory is that I joined the PBS over 20 years ago. I was encouraged to join by several bowhunting acquaintances. Not one of these people are still members. Truth being, they weren't really PBS material, they were good bowhunters but not 100% in tune with what the PBS is all about when it comes to the long haul. If not for those people that were not PBS material, I would not be here.

We need to keep our minds open when it comes to recruiting. We will not be overrun with high tech members controlling and steering our council because we have a mechanism in place to ensure that doesn't happen. In order to vote, you must be a Regular member. To become a regular member, you must meet a series of predetermined criteria that ensure the integrity of the society.



If we are able to keep 10% of all new members after 3 years, we will be ahead of the game. We are an old group demographically. We will start dying off soon and if we don't have younger members in the pipeline to take up the position of the older, experienced and dedicated members, we will come crumbling down quickly.



More to come-
P.J.


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2014, 11:36 am 
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Jacob Chapman wrote:
Please do yourself a favor and check out some of the fly fhishing videos on youtube. Visit some of the major manufacturers of the equipment (Winston, Sage, Hatch etc)

Pretty awesome and inspiring videos. There is a fly fishing film tour which is a blast. We as ethical bowhunters are missing out on a major opportunity to let our voice be heard. Most of those videos are funded by sponsors which I realize, dont you think Hoyt, Easton and other major bow hunting related companies would love to reach another segment of the people???

We need sponsors and people with the ability to reach a broad audience to be on our side. A traditional or ethical bowhunting film tour would be widely appreciated and would bring some much needed awareness to what we do.

You dont think Sitka, or KUIU would be willing to help out ($) to fund an ethical bowhunting short movie, or commercial?? I can almost guarantee it. They are for profit organizations that want to make money, I truly believe that if we can have a uniform and reasonable mission that more companies would be willing to be sponsors.

How many of us have an Easton arrow laying around, or a VPA broadhead laying on the table in our hunting rooms? Have a First Lite jacket or pair of Sitka pants hanging up in our hunting closet? Use Zeiss or Vortex or whatever other company's optics?

We need to promote ourselves and are not doing a very good job at all far as I can see. Heck even Prois (ladies hunting apparel company) has an add in Eastmans bowhunting journal picturing a gal with a longbow sporting their gear!



As a life long fly fisherman, I have always marveled at the manner in which Fly fishing has been able to steer clear of the elitist title and promote their activity with little or no resistance.

There are many great fly fishing films out there, some of which have been made and continue to be made by friends of mine.

We do need to tap into that mind set.

P.J.


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2014, 11:50 am 
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Great discussion guys. I'm enjoying the opinions and wisdom being shared.

I think this is a wonderful example of the PBS. The discussion is very civil and we are all trying to learn.


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2014, 1:40 pm 
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John Vargo wrote:
PBS needs to periodically review our policies/procedures/by-laws and make appropriate updates when required or reaffirm the policy is still appropriate and leave it unchanged. Times change. Equipment is not the same it was when the 65% requirement was drafted. As much as we may want to do so, we cannot travel back in time to a date when all this crap was not available for bowhunters to use.



I agree John, we should look at our bylaws and constitution at a predetermined schedule and see if any issue needs to be addressed or tweaked.

Same for policy and campaigns.

I will give this some more thought and get back with you.
PJ


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2014, 2:26 pm 
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I don't mind one bit when someone says that PBS are a bunch of elitists. I then explain to them that if being a serious, dedicated, and ethical bowhunter who believes bowhunting should be difficult and demanding makes you an "elitist"...then I am proud to call myself one! We need to better-define who we are and not let non-members define us.


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2014, 7:47 pm 
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John Vargo wrote:
I don't mind one bit when someone says that PBS are a bunch of elitists. I then explain to them that if being a serious, dedicated, and ethical bowhunter who believes bowhunting should be difficult and demanding makes you an "elitist"...then I am proud to call myself one! We need to better-define who we are and not let non-members define us.



Being a member of an elite group or elite fraternity is something to be proud of but being an elitist has always (at least during my lifetime) had negative social connotations. In most minds, an elitist has an air about them, they wreak of arrogance. I think there is a difference in the way these two statements are perceived.

We can save the elite-elitist conversation for another thread. I don't want to take this one off topic as it has produced some very good dialogue so far and I don't want to help take it off the rails.

I agree about not allowing others to define us, we have done that far too long.

P.J.


Last edited by P.J. Petiniot on November 25th, 2014, 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: November 25th, 2014, 8:07 pm 
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"We can save the elite-elitist conversation for another thread. I don't want to take this one off topic as it has produced some very good dialogue so far and I don't want to help take it off the rails."

Thank you!


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